Ayo!

What is, in your opinion the difference between "rap" 'n "hip hop"?

I really don't know... you might laugh, but i don'r know any clear definition of "rap" and "hip hop". I read a comment of mezr where he asked for more "hip hop" instead of "rap" so what's the fucking difference?

-a "kraut"

hip hop incorporates breaking djing graffiti and of course mcing.
and it is underground.
rap is mcs who left the other stuff behind to get the fame and 'bling'.
also, most rap has pointless rhymes that talk about them having money and hoes.
in my opinion so think what you want.

also, you can hear the difference in the music,
not just because of the scratching or lack of,
but the beats are different.

often rap beats have drum samples that sound really bad.

also...rap often steals beats from hip hop...
ex. dilated peoples - worst comes to worst
-this beat was ripped three times...ludicris, jahiem, and some one else.

and j lo stole the classic beat of beatnuts - watch out now. and she stole a sample from std breaks for the same song.

but anyhow...hip hop has meaning and gets your head bobin.

im sure i missed some important facts here but my fingers are getting tired so...peace.

THX 4 that information, mezr.

I used to know some beats, i heard on the commercial radio, but wasn't sure, where i knew that from...

i always thought it was the other way round...

nope

In all fairness,

Raptile f. DJ Roger Reckless.

word to the Big Bird.
excellent rap.

My opinion or rap vs. hip-hop?


...Hip-hop makes you wanna spark a dubliner!

rap makes me wanna load my tek-9

people are idiots....the gangstarr album is far from sellout material.....it's a classic album....just because they have success doesn't mean they've sold out...and you peep that song with Jadakiss...and tell me it's sell out music!!!!!!.....Jada came ill on that song....forget his other subpar material.....he came raw on the song...and it was for the streets....MTV had it on there....and they had the skills video on....you should rejoice in the fact that one of the REALEST groups EVER in hiphop has gotten to the top.....and they NEVER sold out to accomplish it.....and guess what...the track with snoop....is actually good!!!!!!!!......this is the best album to drop since Moment Of Truth.....just take a seat...chill out....pop the cd in...and enjoy.....thats all i can say to people who think they've sold out....i love this album....it's a classic....im buyin it ASAP....

nothing will ever beat full clip though.
but jadakiss...aint he a ruff ryder?
i mean *ish.

i personally dont dig that song.

maybe they didnt sell out but they are kinda leaning that way.

as they gain the fame, there is a demand to sell out for the loot.

peace.

you're a class 1 idiot.....just because they're successful and their album has the potential to sell major units it doesn't mean they're selling out....wtf is that *ish....their sound is still as raw as it ever was....have you copped the whole album?????NO....it seems you haven't...cuz if you did....you'd know way better.....and plus Jada didn't spit some weak ass commercial rhymes...he came hardcore and gutter...spittin a verse for the underground....just because you see them on your TV and hear them on your Radio doesn't mean they've sold out...did they compromise their sound to sell out?????NO...they didn't.....it's still the same raw sound you have come to expect from gangstarr over the years.....they're far from selling out....and im actually offended that anybody would throw out that notion.....

I agree with u Enigmatic One (remember our long ass discussion? haha) about Jadakiss not ruining that song.

I do have to give him props for not spitting the usual verbal manure on that track -- Gangstarr didn't change his *ish up, Jada did. I held my breath after i saw the title and the song began... waiting for some nonsense, but I didn't hear any. It's a good track. I haven't heard the rest of teh album yet (only one track with just Guru in it which was good), but it is probably a good catch. I'm going to try and cop it today.

For the sceptical, don't look at it like Gangstarr is flippin around and goin mainstream, it's more teh other way around. He managed to tame the commercial cats in his tracks. I see this as a good thing, he's drawing the commercial fans more into teh underground rather than going mainstream himself.



[Edited on 24-6-2003 by amps]

The border starts to blur.

I just heard the song, and it's ok. Even though i don't like Jadas voice, it's unnerving, but i kinda like this song.

peace out

Sure thing,

i don't see GangStarr as commercial rap.

Look, pitting rap vs. hip-hop is analogous to pitting bark vs. tree, or rhythm vs. R&B, wings vs. bird, DNA vs. gene. Rap is an integral part of hip-hop, and you deeming the two different and seperate doesn't mean *ish. Sorry duke, it's a dumb and useless argument which I've heard too many times.

It depends on how you define rap and hip hop. Not everyone has the same definition (regardless of what it really is).

Some view rap as commercialized version of hip hop playin on the radio all day. You can't sit there and say there's not a obvious distiction between commercial garbage and stuff you can only get on bootleg vinyl.

That is the conversation here, with your correction it should be allowed to continue. I won't argue about the definitions of the two terms but I know the difference between varying forms of hip hop that people are trying to point out.

This is a pointless exercise. Hip Hop is the way of life and rap happens to be a part of that way of life. A true hip-hop head will appreciate graffiti, breakdancing, emcee battles and cuttin n scratchin, but even if he is old skool like myself being into Cold Crush Brothers since 1980, then he will still appreciate what good cuts exist today and will give props to people such as Gangstarr who are making $$$. It doesnt mean they have sold out...they have simply become more accesible as hip-hop is now a billion dollar industry. Just remember all you kids....in this bright future you cannot forget your past and there are many greats from the late 70's and early 80' who are truly the fathers of this music and we should never forget them.

Hip Hop is something you life and rap is something you do.

PACE!

fear it , copywrite might become a ruff ryder. I heard he won some contract or something. I hope not. All the record labels are scrambling to find the next marketable white rap sensation that relates to suburban teens.

yeah...
i finally bought the ownerz

i still dont like right where you stand

but oh well.
other songs are good

look, its pretty simple:
there is hip-hop and there is hip-pop.

whats with your name? your name is my name.

just flippen back a lill i dont think your an idiot or anything -- no disses here mez but im with em one.
ive only listened to a couple of tracks here too.
talkin bout "skillz" (gangstarr) and other trackes i heard.
i really dont think he sold out i love some their songs and i beleive that i got some deepness in me and i cant listen to that ive got gold in my teeth i drive a caddy *ish.
gangstarr's albums are tight all of them.
full clip was tight (i still think moment of truth should of been on it)..



aiggggggggght

meh.
i bought ownerz.
its not that they are selling out,
its just that they feature many sellout rappers or whatever.
ie- jadakiss snoop fat joe..

however the song with snoop is suprisingly good.

i still dont like right where you stand though.
i just dont feel it, at all.

i dunno. geez.

my fav gangstarr of all time is def. "above the clouds" freakin illness

Man jadakissmyass is hardcore *ish,bunk wac lame aint happenin.RAP...puffn on my nuts daddy,ludagetthafukout,the last 2 albums of outkast and i aint sorry mrs.jackson,dmx,ja rule this is a circle jerk of tha new'r RAP out there stay away it'll mess ur head up. HIP HOP... old redmap das efx pmd chubrock erick sermon keithmurray fat joe GANGSTAR never made it in mainstream.just by listening to it ya know that its HIP HOP,oh ya krs 1 D nice jeru tha damaja all HIP HOP. BIGGIE HIP HOP 2 PAC JUST PLAIN BAD RAP. Hope ya can dig this its just how it iz.

I see yall still dont know *ish!!!

okay there's two scenario's to the answer to that question...

A. Hiphop was originally called rap but when it became patented in a certain music chart is was called hiphop which is in part a commercialized name...

Or

B. HipHop is a culture and rap is the music that the people that adhere and live the culture produce and listen to...


but if u ask me my honest answer is this Hiphop is a black culture and rapmusic, jazz r & b and soul etc.. are also other types of music thats joined to it and more is coming....

if youre looking for a responese from chyld youre not going to get it.
banned.

but thats true. beastie boys are all white.
so many peoples in hip hop arent black.

djing...so many phillipenos.
bboying...mostly white id say.
graffiti...just about anyone. even those ethiopians are gettin up.

not much is a one race thing these days.

And i think thats definatly the way it should be, theres so much more that can be acomplished when so many different cultures are brought together

its what you can learn from other cultures.
i mean every body's gotta start from what theve already heard but diff culutres produce diff styles beacasue thats where there at.

my fav gangstarr is moment of truth.
i also love betrayl

moment of truth is really cool, but my personal favorites are militia 1 and the mall
full clip is dope too and while were at it the MVP mix by premier (big l tribute) is great

wow... i thought this was a rap vs. hip hop threat?

"rap is mcs who left the other stuff behind to get the fame and 'bling'.
also, most rap has pointless rhymes that talk about them having money and hoes. "


I hope that was ment ironic. Well you are talking about most of the new american Rap Artists you can hear on radio or see on tele but rap is a lot more than all these rappers that play their "game" in the name of Hip Hop...
Rap is Hip Hop... and Hip Hop is Rap. Spoken word tunes are Rap too...its just a different style to deliver a message.
Black Eyed Peas do Rap, too, but they're not talking about that same *ish every track. It's ok to make money with something you really like, but if you act like a bitch that has nothing more to do than show up loud and act like a bloodsucking leech or a gangster... you ain't goin to recieve no respect from others... at least over here in germany... But anyway...I talked too much allready... u gotta take care of that... even cultures disappear ,)

bläääm bläääm!!!!

hawak

rap=appeasing the deaf and stupid with mundance lyricism

hip hop=real, no doubt real, mentally galvanizing, has substance, and a true manifestation when skill and creativity combine

i agree gangstarr is raw and still underground despite what anyone says. Guru still has the tight lyrics and Premier is the best man. Ownerz is too real and hip hop not copping to the rap or chingy *ish

ya'll don't know nothing haha
alright hip hop= artform, culture , and it is a lifestyle. has many elements.... 5 main ones: b-boying, emceeing, graffiti, dj, beatbox.

Rap= the music inside of hip hop.... hip hop music is the underground scene. and 'rap' is the popular version of hip hop that is on the radio...
that my friend is all true.
1

If you think Gangstarr sold out, u best stfu 'cause ur makin' urself sound like a loser. Anyone who thinks Rite Where U Stand is a bad song get the eff outta here.

Iight, first of all,You all are dumbasses.

Rap is a subdivision, a VERB of what Hip Hop is.

Hip Hop - Music
Rap - A verb that goes under the definition of hip hop.

Just like how Bboying is a subdivision of what Hip Hop is.

But now a days, rap is considered MUSIC, but it's really a verb.

There should only be one term for the music, which is hip hop, whether it's real *ish or not.

Yeah man, it's like KRS said...rap is something u do, HipHop is something u live!

i love this post...
but its like there is no clear definition or clear differences between rap and hip hop, around this point in the thread it seems as if there is slight diff cos they are the same thing....

could i tell the difference between rap and hip hop if i didnt know the language?


why do we have two diff words for the same genre?

my humble opinion:
hip hop is dj-ing, emcee-ing, graff, lifestyle etc all that was aforementioned.

rap is a lyricists vocal style / way of verbally communicating. for instance fred durst raps, that guy who used to lead rage against the machine rapped. but i would never label their music hip hop.

true musical styles/genres are blending, at times for better and alot of the times for worst. the origins of true hip hop, musically remain unchanged.

I just would like to add that mostly everybody, and anybody can rap, but everybody, and anybody can't be a Emecc. I think for some you'd have go beyond listening to Hip-Hop to truly understand what I'm talking about, that way you'd know the difference; even if u couldn't speak the language. Like I could hear a cat in Japan flow and I wouldn't know a word of it, but I'd know it was Hip-Hop. I Just been reading this thread all the through...lol@ the dude that got banned , he really didn't know what the hell he was talking about. Hip-Hop, in my opinion is a gift to world, from the man up stairs, for all man-kind to rock to.

-ahhh, amen.

i remember the days when DJs had mad respect. Infact no MC can MC w/o a dj.

now a DJ is a background thing.

dont ever try to outshine a DJ cuz he will change the beat in the middle of an MC's freestyle and make him look stupid...HA

sticken to the subject.

hiphop is to keep the soul in tact and openin the mind.

while

rap is to seak fame and fortune by sellin the soul.

I agree that there is no clear representation of the line between hip hop and rap..

For me hip hop is an intricate form of broken beat, turntablism, with or without an emcee.. the best part is that hip hop encomapasses both the real art of the emcee with genious beats.. positivity, realism, enlightenment, harmony.. These are all words which most of us have related to hip-hop.. its that feel good smoke a blunt and let that *ish flow from your veins...its that "smart nigga" *ish(please note the reference and do not take this the wrong way)... its that vibin', chillin', learnin' head music.. its for every mood and every high... its both captivating and addictive... And once your in love.. it will be forever.. its heart, soul, and philosophy, modern culture at its best ....A form of expression .... ART.........HIP HOP IS ART.
Raw, Independent.. Hip hop is life.. expressed in harmony.. musicality mixed with lyric bliss... versitility..open.. mind expanding.. balance...Ecclectic..

See.. I mean I think you could just go on and on.. And well Rap...


Bitches, Hos, Money, Crime, simplistic, negativity, catchy, sheep, "bling", sex, solely motivated by public opinion and money.... and that is all .. Now this does not mean that hip hop artists do not speak of these things or do not make simplistic or catchy beats.... only that rap artists tend to stick to these focus on these aspects primarily.

Notice how commercial and underground are not defining elements for me ...
Although personally I listen to more underground.

Hmm.. well, I think I could go on about this topic forever.. and I have....

This is ofcourse all just personal opinion.... and I'm a little enibraited at the moment..... The MOMENT.. Hip Hop.. yeah!! ... .. PEACE....

Just give me only hip hop.
Except that some people say that 50 pence music is hip hop.

i was watching some really bad performance on tv by lil john and thems..
it was terrible, they didnt even know the words to their own song.
they just said "ugh" over and over and now and then said the last word in a line.
and everyone was still liking it.
it was the most disgusting thing in rap ive seen i think.

stupid people taking 50 cent as hip hop...

i dont know what you are talking about? hip hop is originally called rap. hell no hip hop has been around a lot longer. as you must already know hip hop is made up of 4 elements, GRAFFITI, DJ'ING, BBOYIN, AND "MC'ING" THE MC IN MY EYES SHOULD NEVER BE CALLED A RAPPER. even if KRS ONE calls himself "the god fater of rap" see you got it upside down. MC's would roc the house, the park wherever they had to. later peoplr started calling them rappers and as time went on it has got to this. either way the MC is "the Master of Ceremony" he controls the cowd with feestyles, he keeps the vibe roleing, he introduces other mc's and is quick off the top of the dome. now on another note. i wouldnt say oh all rappers suck. i would call Big L a dope underground rapper. and the last thing eclatchyld, open your eyes how could you say hip hop is a black culture. that is a very dum thing to say. hip hop is worldwide. every race. they come together to show the element(s) they can rock and how they put there soul and style into it. i rock graff and bboyin. and love hip hop to death. oh about rap music, jazz, r &b , and soul joining into it. well jazz has a long time ago and it sound dope. but r & b is just killing it. i hope you learned something. im sure you could teach me something too. study a little more. bboy oreone

lil jon, "yyyyeaaaaaaaahh."
is that all he says, sad excuse for a voicebox. ack.
but yeah, i remember when i listened to hip hop before commercial rap was popular, and everyone said i was trying to be black. now look at the rest of them...

Hip Hop:
Common
Tribe Called Quest
Nas
Canibus
Atmosphere

Rap:
Lil Jon
Ludacris
Cube
Ja Fool

... just like this... "Rap is somethin you do, Hip Hop is somethin you live".....

thats all there is to it... All this "rap is whats on the radio, and hiphop is the underground" is bullshit in my opinion. its all one nation under hiphop...it just happens that what most people think is good, what is pushed by the media, fucking sucks giant loads of rancid ass. The underground hiphop just happens to be the good stuff, that hasnt lost its integrity yet. people that sell out, arent sell outs because they get famous and make a lot of money...they are sellouts because they change their sound and conform to the media in order to get famous and make a lot of money. and that, my friends, is the dif between hiphop and rap....or lack there of.

ill agree to that.

IM(humble)O........
Rap is something you do and is the name of a style of music where vocals are rapped rather than sung.
Hip Hop was the name given by magazines and TV to put a name to what was happening back in the mid-late 70's into the early 80's in the BX (ie. dancing, graffiti, djs rocking breaks, etc.) sort of a taxedermy of popular culture if you will.
As times changed Hip Hop have come to mean the music style involving poly rhythms, sampled breaks, turntablism, as in downtempo, or breaks. Or Hip Hop can also be another name for Urban Comtemp. radio format which includes R&B, and rap be it underground or above ground or pop.
But Hip Hop can mean something different to others. Hip Hop to some (who usually describe themselves as Hip Hop purists)define Hip Hop as the collective name for the four elements that include MCing, Breaking, Writing, and DJing.
To me Hip Hop describes an aesthic of living, a culture, which is always changing.

.........Here is a question; what is the difference between a MC and a rapper??

This whole thing about Hip Hop describing underground, and rap describing the pop ish is too simplistic.
Music is always going to be pimped out and there are tons of reasons why people make records -some for fame, some to get l@!d, some to get paid, some to put something out new, some to express themself, etc.
If you are reading this forum I'm sure you're a more critical listener-consumer than those that only listen to music when they get in their car and listen to their local "JAMZ" station and just want to hear something with a nice beat and sing-a-long chorus. There's even people who go out and buy a CD 'cause they like the video they saw on TV!
I think rap music or Hip Hop and music on a whole is divided up too much (ex. underground, gangsta, booty rap, east, west, dirty south, rock, jazz, etc.) I think if one is really into music, one can find good things in all that is out there rather than just limiting themselves to their little division.
Yeah I can't stand the corny @ss so-called lyrics in these radio rap songs but sometimes I'll feel how they hooked up a drum pattern or how their flow went in a verse or I'll feel how they used reverb in a part, or how the song structure goes -but honestly I can't stand to listen to pop music for more than an half hour.
So I think it would be elitist to call a song or artist Hip Hop, and another song or artist rap -because when it all comes down to it music is entertainment and rather it is good or bad depends on the taste of the listener

........I'm rambling, sorry

1 more thing before I go to bed to sleep..
Back in the day before Hip Hop had a name people where doing their thing, they didn't need a name to describe how they where living. Before Rap music or Hip Hop music was out -DJs where rocking music that would make the crowd rock be it rock, jazz, disco, salsa, whatever. Now a days people are so obsessed with naming $h!t and putting in to neat categories.
If one really wants to get into the true spirit of what "Hip Hop" was about "Back in the Day" one would rock their $h!t original. Not only with the clothes they wear, music they rock, whatever, but with their way of thinking rather than biting off what the corporates (ex. McDonalds, MTV, your local ClearChannel radio affiliate, your favorite magazine) force feed 'ya.

......ok off to bed I go.......

Well said mezr. I agree totally. All MCs are rappers, but not all Rappers are MCs. I'd say most rappers could never MC.
I'm sure there's tons of artists that flow on their albums but need editing, studio tricks, overdubs to get their ish right. But take them to the stage or in a cypher, and they look stupid.
If we look back at the history of MCing it was to get the party started, to keep it going, and to keep people from hurting each other. Then came Sugarhill Gang who was sort of the N'sync of rap (ie. group brought together to make a record).
Since 1979 rappers have been coming out with records but many have never been in front of a crowd, while the orginal purpose of the MC and their existance has faded out.
With all that said, I have nothing against rappers that can't MC. I can enjoy both for what they are -a well produced studio artist or a MC rocking the crowd.

I've heard a lot of hip hop in my day. I can't really explain the difference but I know it when I hear it.

Quote:

Origineel gepost door xenium moment of truth is really cool, but my personal favorites are militia 1 and the mall full clip is dope too and while were at it the MVP mix by premier (big l tribute) is great

krs-one said that u will always be just a rapper, until u come to south bronx
bronx is hip-hop, man
rap is the whole world
short and clear

as someone posted in the begining hip hop is the culture not just the music. hip-hop incorporates all the ellements bboys, djs, grafitti, etc... when you take things away from that you get rap. rap is all about the rapper not the dj, bboy, or grafitti artist. hip hop cant surrvive with out rap and rap cant survive without hip hop. its some real ying and yang *ish. hip hop is the blending of all these different styles into not just a culture but also one single art that entertains visually as well as musically. with that said enjoy what you enjoy but dont try to pass it off as somthing it isnt.

YOU CANT COMPARE HIP HOP TO RAP. HIP HOP HAS 4 ELEMENTS. GRAFFITI, MC'N, BREAKDANCING, AND DJ'N. NOW MC'iN AINT LYKE IT IS. BECAUSE NOW A LOT OF PEOPLE GOT MORE LYRICAL OR GOT MORE STREET. SO RAPPING IS A FORM OF MC'iN. YOU GET ME. SO RAP IS A PART OF MC'iN WHICH IS A PART OF HIP HOP. SO RAP IS HIP HOP.

now would you say "gangsta rap" ruins hip hops image? because every one says gangsta rap is hip hop wen its not imo

That's the thing, cats get mixed up on what differs from rap and hip hop songs.

Mezr put up a good Definition of the two, but to me it's common knowledge to scrutinize the two.

I would say gangsta rap WAS hip hop. It was the way the west coast broke into the hip hop scene. Racial tensions were high on the west coast culminating in the Rodney King beating, and the gangsta rap that came out of the 80's and 90's was a direct result of this tension. There was other hip hop going on in the west coast at the same time, like Good Life and other underground ish (Pharcyde, Dialated, etc), but I would argue that when gangsta rap on the west coast first started, it was definitely hip hop.

Nowadays, that gangsta ish is played out and only a select few can pull it off. Like some of the originals - Snoop, Xibit and the like.

point taken..very true.. i kinda dont like snoop anymore bcuz he makes traks with the new so called "gangsters"...like young jeezy imo gots bars..but u cant come out on your first album and be straight gangsta to be in hip hop...like 50 did,lot of the miami and houston rappers are doing now..

The new so called "Gangster" rap is not how it used to be.
Gangster rap back in the day was about the struggle in the streets, sort of like hip hop in a way.
Now it's about bling bling raping hoes and getting money, oh wait thats Hip POP!

yes.. nowa days if you were a "drug dealer" and made a lil paper then maybe u culd buy ur way to a deal...then all of a sudden your a gangster rapper with a mill inda bank
were as bak inda day they was expressing themselves. like NWA. their aldums was all bout the struggle and the cops bieng racist towards blackpeople

PuBliC EneMy WaZ a GewD EXaMplE of DiZZ...
but all these south rappers are fags. they think they run the gang but they really killing it. I'll snatch there chain and pistol wipe them. Then i'll go on a song tell everybody i did it and get my million... O YA!!!!!!!

Very good example.

Public Enemy.

another artist aka the godfather of hip hop is KRS-ONE..he dont be doin wat all these rappers do nowadays but can still kill them ona track

Hell Yea....

KRS-ONE is a LEGEND... ONE OF THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME IN MY BOOKS..

i like his new song "HIP HOP" he bust like nutz on that track

Listen to "Underground".
Most definitely the Godfather of Hip Hop.

see heres the thing....when hip hop was first created it was a positive thing. it was born out of the south bronx as something for people to do so they wouldnt have to turn to crime. people would get together and break dance, dj, rap, do graphitti....it wasnt a gang thing it was a culture thing. it was truly a diamond in the rough. soon alot of the gang bangers and dealers saw this hip hop stuff becoming popular and being a viable living. they decided they would take it and see what they could get out of it. thats where gangster rap started to grow. today gangster rap has basically become corporate. very much the same way gangs organize. hip hop never really changed. hip hop is when you find people on a street corner free styling or beat boxing. hip hop is b-boys and girls battling wherever. hip hop is not just a way to make money and become powerful. hip hop is a way to unite a group of people. not just through music. not just through lyrics. but through culture. through ideas and community. that is why hip hop is much deeper than rap. rap is simply a piece of what hip hop is. with out hip hop there is no rap. with out rap the hip hop culture and mindset can still exist, but it definitely wouldnt be the same. rap is simply a child of the hip hop movement and culture.

What the F*ck ???!!!! HIP HOP is a culture with different subcultures, and one of those subcultures is Rap music(expressing his/her life in the hood/streets on line bars). Then goes Graffity, BrakeDance and ect.. Yall guys should know this, damn.. And that new so called "hip hop" that came out with those Solja boys and ect bitches, its called POP(popular music). True rap music is lyrics, not the beats or ect..

KRS-one recently said himself that "Rapper's" (RAP) are in it for the money and "MC's" (HIP HOP) are in it for the culture.

rap is part of the hip hop culture.
hip hop comprises of, rap (emceeing), dj, graffiti, and breakdancing.

i agree with Shakir.
But for more details ask KRS-ONE who likes giving definition about Rap and Hip Hop...Rap is something you do..Hip Hip is lifestyle too simple but true,,,